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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Drupal Sucks&#8221; Followup: Drupal Alternatives</title>
	<atom:link href="http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/</link>
	<description>Web innovation, entrepreneurship, usability</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:04:23 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: CMS User</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>CMS User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-585</guid>
		<description>The idea of a one-size-fits-all CMS is a weird one. Some people use Drupal as a CMS, others as a framework. As others have said, the problem isn&#039;t Drupal, it&#039;s PHP.

If you have to stick with PHP, use PIMCORE or roll your own with Zend.

Typo3 is a pig. Don&#039;t try to use it unless you have a lot of serious resources. Joomla is a bad joke. A total nightmare. Wordpress is fine for a blog (if you don&#039;t mind being pwned), but a bad idea for a complex site. Use blog software for blogs, not for other kinds of sites. CMS Made Simple was headed in the right direction, but then they ditched their &quot;let&#039;s re-architect this like sane people&quot; 2.0 project, and most of the best people have left the building. If they sold stock, I&#039;d short it. Does anyone seriously look at projects like MODx or Website Baker? If so, they need help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of a one-size-fits-all CMS is a weird one. Some people use Drupal as a CMS, others as a framework. As others have said, the problem isn&#8217;t Drupal, it&#8217;s PHP.</p>
<p>If you have to stick with PHP, use PIMCORE or roll your own with Zend.</p>
<p>Typo3 is a pig. Don&#8217;t try to use it unless you have a lot of serious resources. Joomla is a bad joke. A total nightmare. Wordpress is fine for a blog (if you don&#8217;t mind being pwned), but a bad idea for a complex site. Use blog software for blogs, not for other kinds of sites. CMS Made Simple was headed in the right direction, but then they ditched their &#8220;let&#8217;s re-architect this like sane people&#8221; 2.0 project, and most of the best people have left the building. If they sold stock, I&#8217;d short it. Does anyone seriously look at projects like MODx or Website Baker? If so, they need help.</p>
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		<title>By: Gustavo</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>Gustavo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2011 21:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-583</guid>
		<description>my 2 cents...the problem is not Drupal, but spend a lot of time learning useless things, that will be died very soon in the future...we like to spend time in meaningful things. If was possible learn drupal in 1 or 2 hours, ok, this is a great framework and i can use it in some of my projects, even the hard ones...but 1 or 2 weeks for only a scratch in the surface...omg, every minute learning drupal seems absolutely a waste of time, and the consequence is angry and frustation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my 2 cents&#8230;the problem is not Drupal, but spend a lot of time learning useless things, that will be died very soon in the future&#8230;we like to spend time in meaningful things. If was possible learn drupal in 1 or 2 hours, ok, this is a great framework and i can use it in some of my projects, even the hard ones&#8230;but 1 or 2 weeks for only a scratch in the surface&#8230;omg, every minute learning drupal seems absolutely a waste of time, and the consequence is angry and frustation.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 23:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-573</guid>
		<description>I agree with everything in this. Having worked with Drupal, Django, Silverstripe and Codeigniter I&#039;d like to think I know a bit about what is best.

I used to use Drupal a few years back, before I had been introduced to these other frameworks and tools. I thought it was the bees knees, you can install these modules and override just about everything. But when I started working with other platforms I quickly changed my mind.

Drupal takes the worst aspects of a framework and combines them with the worst aspects of a CMS. Configuration is a huge pain in the ass, since it&#039;s stored in the database. It&#039;s generally hard to use and slow. The api is very procedural and ugly.
The queries for your content will usually do over 5 or 6 joins, which is horrendously slow.

Drupal is for people who want to build a whole website by clicking buttons. You could say it is the Dreamweaver of the CMS world. Developers are far better off using a framework where your work is done with clean code. If you use version control this is a huge win. Maybe if you&#039;re not a developer it will be good for you because of this. However it is not a tool any professional should ever use.

Django or Silverstripe introduced me to clean object relational mapping, classes, simple templating (Drupal templates are very hard) and scaffolding. I prefer Django, because python is far superior to PHP, and the community is much larger. However silverstripe is both a great CMS and framework for content driven websites. To be honest I think Silverstripe stole a few ideas of Django. In either of these frameworks one just quickly write some fields into a model class and have the administration backend generate the forms and navigation to manage the content. Compare that with clicking 20 times to make your CCK model in Drupal.

Django, Rails,  C# .NET are all used for large *dynamic* websites. Just because the white house puts up a news site they cache the shit out of doesn&#039;t mean Drupal is a good solution. Also, PHP sucks balls. It&#039;s 2011, move on from this legacy language. Until the Drupal fanboys have given the alternatives a try they should STFU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with everything in this. Having worked with Drupal, Django, Silverstripe and Codeigniter I&#8217;d like to think I know a bit about what is best.</p>
<p>I used to use Drupal a few years back, before I had been introduced to these other frameworks and tools. I thought it was the bees knees, you can install these modules and override just about everything. But when I started working with other platforms I quickly changed my mind.</p>
<p>Drupal takes the worst aspects of a framework and combines them with the worst aspects of a CMS. Configuration is a huge pain in the ass, since it&#8217;s stored in the database. It&#8217;s generally hard to use and slow. The api is very procedural and ugly.<br />
The queries for your content will usually do over 5 or 6 joins, which is horrendously slow.</p>
<p>Drupal is for people who want to build a whole website by clicking buttons. You could say it is the Dreamweaver of the CMS world. Developers are far better off using a framework where your work is done with clean code. If you use version control this is a huge win. Maybe if you&#8217;re not a developer it will be good for you because of this. However it is not a tool any professional should ever use.</p>
<p>Django or Silverstripe introduced me to clean object relational mapping, classes, simple templating (Drupal templates are very hard) and scaffolding. I prefer Django, because python is far superior to PHP, and the community is much larger. However silverstripe is both a great CMS and framework for content driven websites. To be honest I think Silverstripe stole a few ideas of Django. In either of these frameworks one just quickly write some fields into a model class and have the administration backend generate the forms and navigation to manage the content. Compare that with clicking 20 times to make your CCK model in Drupal.</p>
<p>Django, Rails,  C# .NET are all used for large *dynamic* websites. Just because the white house puts up a news site they cache the shit out of doesn&#8217;t mean Drupal is a good solution. Also, PHP sucks balls. It&#8217;s 2011, move on from this legacy language. Until the Drupal fanboys have given the alternatives a try they should STFU.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Doolan</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-543</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Doolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-543</guid>
		<description>The Drupal fan boys miss the point. I&#039;ve used Drupal and find it useful, but it&#039;s not very user friendly or intuitive for that matter. Drupal 7 is meant to be a big improvement, but I&#039;ve not sat down to use it yet.

In fact the company I work for uses Python so I&#039;m learning Python because I, like the author of this post think that for some projects writing your own is better than trying to bend a CMS to your requirements.

Python seems quite good so far, and Django is meant to be a good framework too. 

It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve and what your budget is. For simple sites that only require minor updates every so often simple CMS&#039;s look good. For complex community driven sites Drupal may be the trick. Each project will have different needs so you can&#039;t paint them all with the same brush.

I will say that I&#039;ll never use Joomla ever and I mean ever! Life is too short to use bad software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Drupal fan boys miss the point. I&#8217;ve used Drupal and find it useful, but it&#8217;s not very user friendly or intuitive for that matter. Drupal 7 is meant to be a big improvement, but I&#8217;ve not sat down to use it yet.</p>
<p>In fact the company I work for uses Python so I&#8217;m learning Python because I, like the author of this post think that for some projects writing your own is better than trying to bend a CMS to your requirements.</p>
<p>Python seems quite good so far, and Django is meant to be a good framework too. </p>
<p>It all comes down to what you are trying to achieve and what your budget is. For simple sites that only require minor updates every so often simple CMS&#8217;s look good. For complex community driven sites Drupal may be the trick. Each project will have different needs so you can&#8217;t paint them all with the same brush.</p>
<p>I will say that I&#8217;ll never use Joomla ever and I mean ever! Life is too short to use bad software.</p>
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		<title>By: Gianmichele</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator>Gianmichele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 23:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-539</guid>
		<description>Escuse me, but I think you dont&#039; know well what you are talking about.
Drupal has been used in enormous project of huge complexity; rewrite everything? 
database abstraction layer, user, management, modularity, and more important visual project and customization: often you don&#039;t have to write a single line of code.
www.whitehouse.gov is drupal based: think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Escuse me, but I think you dont&#8217; know well what you are talking about.<br />
Drupal has been used in enormous project of huge complexity; rewrite everything?<br />
database abstraction layer, user, management, modularity, and more important visual project and customization: often you don&#8217;t have to write a single line of code.<br />
<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.whitehouse.gov');" rel="nofollow">http://www.whitehouse.gov</a> is drupal based: think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-505</guid>
		<description>I think Drupal is widely accepted as one of, if not the most complex, but most powerful open-source CMS available.  It comes with its own terminology and way of thinking which even experienced developers have to get their heads around, so there is a learning curve for everyone.

Having been part of a team that has rescued many failed Drupal sites, we know what it looks like when the wrong people get their hands on it, and yes it can turn into a nightmare.  However if you know what you are doing, Drupal is a dream to use, and actually really helps budgeting and project planning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Drupal is widely accepted as one of, if not the most complex, but most powerful open-source CMS available.  It comes with its own terminology and way of thinking which even experienced developers have to get their heads around, so there is a learning curve for everyone.</p>
<p>Having been part of a team that has rescued many failed Drupal sites, we know what it looks like when the wrong people get their hands on it, and yes it can turn into a nightmare.  However if you know what you are doing, Drupal is a dream to use, and actually really helps budgeting and project planning.</p>
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		<title>By: eugene</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-494</link>
		<dc:creator>eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 22:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-494</guid>
		<description>This might be helpful reading for someone:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/library/i-osource1/#N10245</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might be helpful reading for someone:<br />
<a href="http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/library/i-osource1/#N10245" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.ibm.com');" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/library/i-osource1/#N10245</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 01:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-457</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this article. I tried using drupal for one of my sites and it was a huge learning curve. The most simple activities such as removing &quot;view&quot; from the my account page was a nightmare and I still have not got round to doing this. Thanks for the interesting advice. I will check out those other links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this article. I tried using drupal for one of my sites and it was a huge learning curve. The most simple activities such as removing &#8220;view&#8221; from the my account page was a nightmare and I still have not got round to doing this. Thanks for the interesting advice. I will check out those other links.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-454</guid>
		<description>That Drupal requires 40 or so database queries for even the most simple of pages and hundreds for more complex pages, tells you all you need to know about that pile of garbage and the people who wrote it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Drupal requires 40 or so database queries for even the most simple of pages and hundreds for more complex pages, tells you all you need to know about that pile of garbage and the people who wrote it.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/design/drupal-sucks-followup-drupal-alternatives/comment-page-1/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=292#comment-453</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Strangely, my most lucrative clients ARE Drupal clients, who constantly call me confused and needing repair or support. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
And are you confused and in need of repair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Strangely, my most lucrative clients ARE Drupal clients, who constantly call me confused and needing repair or support. </p></blockquote>
<p>And are you confused and in need of repair?</p>
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