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	<title>Comments on: Drupal Sucks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
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	<description>Web innovation, entrepreneurship, usability</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:01:30 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-472</guid>
		<description>Just reminding everyone that Drupal is a terrible piece of european garbage and everyone should stay far, far away (unless you live in your moms basement and like to mess with a horribly broken CMS all day).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just reminding everyone that Drupal is a terrible piece of european garbage and everyone should stay far, far away (unless you live in your moms basement and like to mess with a horribly broken CMS all day).</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas J. Webb</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas J. Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-470</guid>
		<description>I have had a very negative experience with Drupal as well. I could go on an on with the details, but don&#039;t have time. I&#039;ll just leave it at that these two things stuck out like a sore thumb:

1) Drupal is not suitable if you want to create anything that hasn&#039;t been created before. In other words, it&#039;s not useful if you are creating something of value. Drupal fanboys reply to criticisms that it&#039;s too complicated by insisting that it&#039;s too powerful and flexible for the person who says so. Unfortunately, Drupal fails here even more than it fails in simplicity. The tiniest change can require tapping into core and that means having to repeat yourself when an upgrade comes.

Unless vanilla Drupal, plus CORE modules are sufficient for you, best make something from scratch. It will be easier in the long run, even if you factor in the time required to make your code secure (which isn&#039;t as hard as people insist it is). I&#039;ve had a few really good Drupal programmers concede this point to me. I&#039;ve been told it&#039;s my fault for &quot;having too many customizations.&quot; Nothing of value is going to be off the shelf and if off the shelf is sufficient for you, then something easier to use like Joomla or Wordpress or Concrete 5 would be a better choice.

2) The community. People who&#039;s livelihood rests on wielding this one hammer (Drupal) against all the screws, pieces of pressboard and antique china the internet has to offer. They insist that everything is possible in Drupal. It&#039;s their mantra, but all that really means is anything is possible in PHP (not really, but I&#039;d let that less preposterous claim slide). There&#039;s great hostility to creativity, wanting to do things in a way that is user-friendly or attractive or using non-standard ajax or javascript. I met quite a few Drupal coders I liked, don&#039;t get me wrong, but asking if anyone has had experience doing something in Drupal on the forums always resulted in &quot;why would you want to do that?&quot; Drupal makes sense only to Drupal developers and are hostile to all criticism, even if it&#039;s valid and constructive. (I&#039;ve seen quite a few non-derogatory posts get deleted that should&#039;ve have been).

Rails is better. MIT license. Or roll out your own PHP CMS using Zend. Or use Django. Or join the Concrete5 community and help them improve their damn good CMS. Or if it&#039;s simple enough, use Wordpress (fun to make plugins for). You can&#039;t make your own web apps in Drupal (I think many Drupal programmers would admit that, but countless Drupal users insist you can and will waste your money trying to make it for you and failing miserably).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had a very negative experience with Drupal as well. I could go on an on with the details, but don&#8217;t have time. I&#8217;ll just leave it at that these two things stuck out like a sore thumb:</p>
<p>1) Drupal is not suitable if you want to create anything that hasn&#8217;t been created before. In other words, it&#8217;s not useful if you are creating something of value. Drupal fanboys reply to criticisms that it&#8217;s too complicated by insisting that it&#8217;s too powerful and flexible for the person who says so. Unfortunately, Drupal fails here even more than it fails in simplicity. The tiniest change can require tapping into core and that means having to repeat yourself when an upgrade comes.</p>
<p>Unless vanilla Drupal, plus CORE modules are sufficient for you, best make something from scratch. It will be easier in the long run, even if you factor in the time required to make your code secure (which isn&#8217;t as hard as people insist it is). I&#8217;ve had a few really good Drupal programmers concede this point to me. I&#8217;ve been told it&#8217;s my fault for &#8220;having too many customizations.&#8221; Nothing of value is going to be off the shelf and if off the shelf is sufficient for you, then something easier to use like Joomla or Wordpress or Concrete 5 would be a better choice.</p>
<p>2) The community. People who&#8217;s livelihood rests on wielding this one hammer (Drupal) against all the screws, pieces of pressboard and antique china the internet has to offer. They insist that everything is possible in Drupal. It&#8217;s their mantra, but all that really means is anything is possible in PHP (not really, but I&#8217;d let that less preposterous claim slide). There&#8217;s great hostility to creativity, wanting to do things in a way that is user-friendly or attractive or using non-standard ajax or javascript. I met quite a few Drupal coders I liked, don&#8217;t get me wrong, but asking if anyone has had experience doing something in Drupal on the forums always resulted in &#8220;why would you want to do that?&#8221; Drupal makes sense only to Drupal developers and are hostile to all criticism, even if it&#8217;s valid and constructive. (I&#8217;ve seen quite a few non-derogatory posts get deleted that should&#8217;ve have been).</p>
<p>Rails is better. MIT license. Or roll out your own PHP CMS using Zend. Or use Django. Or join the Concrete5 community and help them improve their damn good CMS. Or if it&#8217;s simple enough, use Wordpress (fun to make plugins for). You can&#8217;t make your own web apps in Drupal (I think many Drupal programmers would admit that, but countless Drupal users insist you can and will waste your money trying to make it for you and failing miserably).</p>
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		<title>By: Quevin</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Quevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-466</guid>
		<description>Negative posts like this result in a slew of responses that only end up making Drupal look stellar. If you want a blog like this: Wordpress. If you want a multi-user site with unlimited growth and scalability potential: Drupal. However, as with any framework, it requires Developers who know how to use it properly. Yes, I&#039;ve seen some horrible Drupal sites and fixed some of them myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Negative posts like this result in a slew of responses that only end up making Drupal look stellar. If you want a blog like this: Wordpress. If you want a multi-user site with unlimited growth and scalability potential: Drupal. However, as with any framework, it requires Developers who know how to use it properly. Yes, I&#8217;ve seen some horrible Drupal sites and fixed some of them myself.</p>
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		<title>By: hari</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>hari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 05:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-463</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read most of the comments here and while I tried to wrap my head around Drupal, I figured that the trouble of learning it is not worth it. Especially if you want to build a community site. A forum based system seems much easier and more standardized that users are more likely to adapt to it than a complicated CMS.

However, the biggest reason I think people get frustrated with Drupal is NOT that it&#039;s hard to learn or anything of that kind. In fact, I think it&#039;s EASY to do certain things with Drupal quickly. The hard part is building a site you want exactly the way you want and that seems to require a lot of customization within the framework. The unified administration interface of Drupal makes that a lot harder.

To me, getting a unique community website is about putting several components together and making them seem part of the whole deal: blogs, articles, reviews, news updates, forums, albums, galleries etc. Thing is most CMSes try to unify all these aspects into one solution. Most of them end up being complex and bloated and Drupal seems to be no exception to that rule. As a result, it makes it harder to build something out of a CMS that actually looks UNIQUE and DIFFERENT. Of all the time I spent tweaking around with Drupal, I never felt that I could make it fit into my needs with lesser effort. It seems I was fighting the software to make it work the way I want it. In the end, I figured that the added effort was not worth it.

As an analogy, I&#039;d say Drupal is a wild beast that requires a lot of taming and controlling before you can get it to dance to your tunes. Whether it&#039;s worth it or not depends on your own requirements and patience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read most of the comments here and while I tried to wrap my head around Drupal, I figured that the trouble of learning it is not worth it. Especially if you want to build a community site. A forum based system seems much easier and more standardized that users are more likely to adapt to it than a complicated CMS.</p>
<p>However, the biggest reason I think people get frustrated with Drupal is NOT that it&#8217;s hard to learn or anything of that kind. In fact, I think it&#8217;s EASY to do certain things with Drupal quickly. The hard part is building a site you want exactly the way you want and that seems to require a lot of customization within the framework. The unified administration interface of Drupal makes that a lot harder.</p>
<p>To me, getting a unique community website is about putting several components together and making them seem part of the whole deal: blogs, articles, reviews, news updates, forums, albums, galleries etc. Thing is most CMSes try to unify all these aspects into one solution. Most of them end up being complex and bloated and Drupal seems to be no exception to that rule. As a result, it makes it harder to build something out of a CMS that actually looks UNIQUE and DIFFERENT. Of all the time I spent tweaking around with Drupal, I never felt that I could make it fit into my needs with lesser effort. It seems I was fighting the software to make it work the way I want it. In the end, I figured that the added effort was not worth it.</p>
<p>As an analogy, I&#8217;d say Drupal is a wild beast that requires a lot of taming and controlling before you can get it to dance to your tunes. Whether it&#8217;s worth it or not depends on your own requirements and patience.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-462</guid>
		<description>Drupal is by far the worst CMS I have ever used.  Stay far, far away from Drupal if actually want to work on your site instead of fighting with Drupal constantly.   Terrible CMS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drupal is by far the worst CMS I have ever used.  Stay far, far away from Drupal if actually want to work on your site instead of fighting with Drupal constantly.   Terrible CMS.</p>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-461</guid>
		<description>Drupal does suck, but to suggest Ruby on Rails as a solution is just trading one kind of brokenness for another. Ruby&#039;s performance on the interpreter level sucks, then add the bloated rails framework on top of that and it&#039;s a disaster waiting to happen.  If you&#039;re site is more than just a hobby or a proof of concept, stay away from Rails as well as Droople.

Wordpress is the best alternative to drupal. It has it&#039;s own internal problems with spaghetti code, but at least there&#039;s much less code to deal with and it&#039;s a bit easier to understand the internals, mainly because there is less code. Besides, wordpress looks nice, works great, and is easy to learn right out of the box. It&#039;s also a piece of cake to convert it from a blogging app to a straightforward CMS.

If you&#039;re going to end up even looking at the code (and you will have to by necessity if you use Droople or Rails), you may as well just save yourself some time and just change a few lines of wordpress code and just get on with your life.

http://www.graphicdesignblog.co.uk/wordpress-as-a-cms-content-management-system/

http://www.noupe.com/wordpress/powerful-cms-using-wordpress.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drupal does suck, but to suggest Ruby on Rails as a solution is just trading one kind of brokenness for another. Ruby&#8217;s performance on the interpreter level sucks, then add the bloated rails framework on top of that and it&#8217;s a disaster waiting to happen.  If you&#8217;re site is more than just a hobby or a proof of concept, stay away from Rails as well as Droople.</p>
<p>Wordpress is the best alternative to drupal. It has it&#8217;s own internal problems with spaghetti code, but at least there&#8217;s much less code to deal with and it&#8217;s a bit easier to understand the internals, mainly because there is less code. Besides, wordpress looks nice, works great, and is easy to learn right out of the box. It&#8217;s also a piece of cake to convert it from a blogging app to a straightforward CMS.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re going to end up even looking at the code (and you will have to by necessity if you use Droople or Rails), you may as well just save yourself some time and just change a few lines of wordpress code and just get on with your life.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.graphicdesignblog.co.uk/wordpress-as-a-cms-content-management-system/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.graphicdesignblog.co.uk');" rel="nofollow">http://www.graphicdesignblog.co.uk/wordpress-as-a-cms-content-management-system/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.noupe.com/wordpress/powerful-cms-using-wordpress.html" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.noupe.com');" rel="nofollow">http://www.noupe.com/wordpress/powerful-cms-using-wordpress.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-460</guid>
		<description>@dustin - &quot;The thing about coding your CMS or your own App from scratch is that you are your own support. Coding around a CMS such as Drupal, is that your problems are probably problems that have been solved or there is already an awesome module that handles the work for you. This drastically increases productivity, and when you have a client breathing down your neck, delivery time is crucial.&quot;

The flaws being there are very few &quot;awesome&quot; modules in Drupal, even realtively popular ones have bugs open for weeks or months, they are generally bloated because they try to please everyone and the popular frameworks all have many plugins, modules, libraries, etc that also solve a problem for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@dustin &#8211; &#8220;The thing about coding your CMS or your own App from scratch is that you are your own support. Coding around a CMS such as Drupal, is that your problems are probably problems that have been solved or there is already an awesome module that handles the work for you. This drastically increases productivity, and when you have a client breathing down your neck, delivery time is crucial.&#8221;</p>
<p>The flaws being there are very few &#8220;awesome&#8221; modules in Drupal, even realtively popular ones have bugs open for weeks or months, they are generally bloated because they try to please everyone and the popular frameworks all have many plugins, modules, libraries, etc that also solve a problem for you.</p>
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		<title>By: pixelis</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>pixelis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-459</guid>
		<description>- I think this article was written by a developper
- All developpers I know, they hate other developpers&#039;code
- I think many developpers assume they know how rules the matrix
- I know developpers are not skilled at making user friendly interfaces
- I see more and more content managers people having experience with Drupal, they dont with your own home made cms
- I agree Drupal is no more than a web content management system. Dont use it to build web apps. Frameworks are perfect for this.
- I like Drupal because I can build evoluated website prototypes (not apps) without any help from a developper
- Home made cms are usually lighter, more friendly, faster,... but ususally, they are not extendable, not well secured,... the support, maintenance, evolution  depend on the  exact team who build it...
- It is very important to choose the right tool for the right project, depending on specs, evolutivity, security issues,...
- I cannot believe a developper on his own can build the same kind of a tool that is maintained by thousands developpers community 

DRUPAL ROCKS !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>- I think this article was written by a developper<br />
- All developpers I know, they hate other developpers&#8217;code<br />
- I think many developpers assume they know how rules the matrix<br />
- I know developpers are not skilled at making user friendly interfaces<br />
- I see more and more content managers people having experience with Drupal, they dont with your own home made cms<br />
- I agree Drupal is no more than a web content management system. Dont use it to build web apps. Frameworks are perfect for this.<br />
- I like Drupal because I can build evoluated website prototypes (not apps) without any help from a developper<br />
- Home made cms are usually lighter, more friendly, faster,&#8230; but ususally, they are not extendable, not well secured,&#8230; the support, maintenance, evolution  depend on the  exact team who build it&#8230;<br />
- It is very important to choose the right tool for the right project, depending on specs, evolutivity, security issues,&#8230;<br />
- I cannot believe a developper on his own can build the same kind of a tool that is maintained by thousands developpers community </p>
<p>DRUPAL ROCKS !</p>
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		<title>By: Roland</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator>Roland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-456</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt; 6 – “Drupal has a history of security vulnerabilities”. So does every other software application out there. That’s why there are updates. The difference is that Drupal is very public in releasing security updates. Most other systems are not.&lt;/cite&gt;

This  illustrates how far off-base many Drupal fans are.  A large number of vulnerabilities IS NOT a measure of good security and Drupal DOES NOT do a better job of publishing or releasing updates than other OSS projects.  But it is not all Drupal&#039;s fault.  PHP is a good part if the problem, not being OO, it doesn&#039;t compile,  is dynamically typed, and very easy to write sloppy code...

While Drupal certainly isn&#039;t the worst OSS out there the criticism mentioned in this blog post are all valid and they are all good points (unlike most of the rebuttals).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite> 6 – “Drupal has a history of security vulnerabilities”. So does every other software application out there. That’s why there are updates. The difference is that Drupal is very public in releasing security updates. Most other systems are not.</cite></p>
<p>This  illustrates how far off-base many Drupal fans are.  A large number of vulnerabilities IS NOT a measure of good security and Drupal DOES NOT do a better job of publishing or releasing updates than other OSS projects.  But it is not all Drupal&#8217;s fault.  PHP is a good part if the problem, not being OO, it doesn&#8217;t compile,  is dynamically typed, and very easy to write sloppy code&#8230;</p>
<p>While Drupal certainly isn&#8217;t the worst OSS out there the criticism mentioned in this blog post are all valid and they are all good points (unlike most of the rebuttals).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://robozen.com/technology/drupal-sucks/comment-page-3/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robozen.com/?p=257#comment-455</guid>
		<description>I was just interviewed for Drupal position, the employer wanted me to show him some code, which I&#039;ll happily agree too. Also this isn&#039;t the first time I&#039;ve toyed with Drupal, but after seeing CODE BLOCKs, I feel pretty horrid about Drupal. Managing code in a database is retarded.

Also, if you look at some of their functions it gets more retarded, for example: 

&lt;code&gt;
4.6 – 5 -user_authenticate($name, $pass)
6 - user_authenticate($form_values = array())
7 -user_authenticate($name, $password)
&lt;/code&gt;

It gets pretty retarded between versions, somebody thought it would be a good idea to change the function parameters in 6 and 7, and change it back to the normal usage. This simple example screams bad development all over.

I&#039;ll stick with Ruby on Rails and not Drupal with seven cups of coffee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just interviewed for Drupal position, the employer wanted me to show him some code, which I&#8217;ll happily agree too. Also this isn&#8217;t the first time I&#8217;ve toyed with Drupal, but after seeing CODE BLOCKs, I feel pretty horrid about Drupal. Managing code in a database is retarded.</p>
<p>Also, if you look at some of their functions it gets more retarded, for example: </p>
<p><code><br />
4.6 – 5 -user_authenticate($name, $pass)<br />
6 - user_authenticate($form_values = array())<br />
7 -user_authenticate($name, $password)<br />
</code></p>
<p>It gets pretty retarded between versions, somebody thought it would be a good idea to change the function parameters in 6 and 7, and change it back to the normal usage. This simple example screams bad development all over.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stick with Ruby on Rails and not Drupal with seven cups of coffee.</p>
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